The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย Pingpong \(-_-)/ - Saturday, 15 January 2005, 06:06AM
 
A lot of Thanks to Ms.Jill and Ms.Amanda for their contributions to the Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog ( http://www.bangkaew.com/main/modules.php?name=catalog&file=product_info&products_id=34 )
http://barkarian.bangkaew.com/Sophi.JPG                     http://kyrie.bangkaew.com/NumlophCurmim3.jpg
ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย Pingpong \(-_-)/ - Wednesday, 12 January 2005, 05:15PM
 

Dear Ms.Amada,
I have read through your website about your journey to Pitsanulok to buy Numlaph and Curmin and take them with you to the US.
It seems that Numlaphs is very close to Mr.Jitti.  How did  he behave during the trip to US ?  Did he seem lonely ?  Did you have any problems with him and how did you manage to get him familiarized with new owner and new environment.
In Thailand, when an adult TBD is abandoned, it is difficult to find a new owner who want to adopt them, because it is believed that adult TBD is royal and devoted to his only owner and it is difficult for him to get along with new owner.
Do you have any suggestions ?

http://www.thai-bangkaew.com/KyrieBangkaew/ThailandTrip/WebsitePhotos/Day12/Numloph1.jpg

Picture is linked from http://www.thai-bangkaew.com/KyrieBangkaew/ThailandTrip/ThailandTrip2004Day12.html

Re: ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย Amanda Gibney - Wednesday, 12 January 2005, 09:24PM
  Numloph does not seem typical of most adults Bangkaew. He is very sweet and outgoing, loves everyone. He has the temperment I would like to see in the breed. He took the whole journey in stride, was very well behaved the 2 days he had to be boarded at the vet in Bangkok. Got out of his crate in LAX with his tail wagging. He's not fond of my other male dogs, espcially Ricky, my other adult male Bangkaew, but he loves to play with my Siberian bitches and with the male Bangkaew puppy Mo. He is half brother to So-phi (the bitch I co-own with Jill Wolens, Barkarian Kennels), they are both out of Morgan, he seem to produce some very good temperments. Curmim, the 2 year old bitch, took a little while to adjust to us. Jitti told us it would take a little longer for her to warm up to us. I had only known her for a couple hours before we had to board her at the vet in Bangkok. When we went to pick them up I had to go in the back and get her, she didn't want any of the staff getting her out of her cage. Even though she didn't know me well, she was perfectly behaved. She went through the flight just fine too and was a good girl on the drive home. She was home for about a week before she really started playing with us, now she is a very silly girl, fetches toys, jumps in your lap. She is more reserved wtih strangers, but not at all aggressive. Ricky, the first male I had shipped over, seems more typical of problems you have with the breed. A friend brought him and So-phi from LA to TX for me and Ricky bit him 3 times on the trip. He didn't dare put Ricky back in a crate, he became incredibly aggressive in one. When Ricky got here, I put him and So-phi in one of my smaller yards and left them there. So-phi was sweet and loving from the begining. Ricky didn't want anything to do with anyone. They got to see me twice a day at meal times, I would play with So-phi and ignore Ricky. After a few days of this Ricky decided he wanted some attention too. He was still very cautious for about a week with me, then he decided that he loved me. I could then do anything with him, take him in and out of a crate, roll him on his back, etc. He is still bad in his crate when I'm not around. He will warm up to people, but it takes him a long time. We boarded him while we were on our trip to Thailand and it took about 1 1/2 weeks before Ricky decided my friend that runs the place was a good person. Amanda
ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย ^.".^ Jill - Thursday, 13 January 2005, 01:51AM
 

Our shelters in the US often have many dogs that display temperament problems. It too, effects their ability to be adopted into new homes. Unfortunately, it often was their behavior that caused them to be placed there.  Many problems started before the puppy came home & then complicated by the pet owner who was unaware of how to cope with their dog's nature and behaviors.

It is known that certain breeds are genetically inclined to dominance, being territorial, or suspiciousness toward strangers or other dogs. It doesn't mean that all dogs of those breeds will always be aggressive or suspicious but, that the genetic tendency is stronger in them.  It may take more dedication & work to socialize them but, the result is better companions & fewer dogs in the shelter. เห็นด้วย

To improve temperament, in these breeds, I find it essential to:

1. Get puppy from well tempered Sire & Dam. They tend to be well natured as the parents.

2. That puppies are kept with Dam & littermates till seven weeks old, puppies do not learn bite inhibition or other social signals that are taught by mother & siblings, in this critical seven week time. Puppies taken away too soon often end up snapping at people or aggressive & fearful of other dogs.

3. Socialize the puppy. Both responsiblity of breeder & new owner. This is from 7 weeks old to about 6 months of age. It is very important to Take your puppies & young dogs out to see the world around them. Keeping them at home makes them territorial & unaccepting of new people.

4. Do not ignore poor behavior like barking, growling,  suspiciousness, raised hackles, showing teeth, hiding behind you. Correct them. Do not accept, reassure or praise for acting aggressively or with fear.

5. Actively reward & Praise highly, good behaviors!

In all, good breeders + good owners = Great dogs. 

There are methods of re-training aggressive dogs. However, they do take weeks of consistent work to be helpful. Amanda used one such method (Ignoring) to gain trust & teach respect with Ricky. It is seen that not all behavior problems can be corrected. It is best if they are never allowed to begin.

If anyone is interested in more detailed information on socializing & training just email me.

Jill

ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย Pingpong \(-_-)/ - Thursday, 13 January 2005, 07:56AM
 
Thanks for your advices and suggestions.
There are 2 opinions about the directions of developing TBD.
One is keeping it as militant as it used to be , (to protect the property of its' owner.)
The other is to develop it to be a friendly socialable dog , (not sure that it can protect the property of its' owner or not.)
White-brown TBD is said to be more militant, ( it may sound better than aggressive, aggressiveness towards strangers is acceptable as long as it can be put under control by his owner.)
Mr.Nisit,the first vet who promoted TBD to be well known 30 years ago, tries to preserve White-brown TBD as symbolic of Pitsanulok, there will be a TBD show in the annual province festival on 29 this month, http://www.bangkaew.com/elearning/calendar/view.php?view=day&course=1&cal_d=29&cal_m=1&cal_y=2005
http://www.bangkaew.com/webboard/data/imagefiles/R151-14.jpg
This is the top winner of militant puppy of last year festival.
This year will be new shows on tiger-face , lion-face ,and fox-face TBD also.
It is interesting to join.
ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย ไตรสิทธิ์ . - Thursday, 13 January 2005, 07:53AM
 

It is also happy to hear that aggressive TBD can be trained to accept new owner too.

Here are some photos of TBD at Baan Nironmon Shelter.
http://www.bangkaew.com/elearning/file.php/1/moddata/forum/1/1724/DSC08389.1.JPG

http://www.bangkaew.com/elearning/file.php/1/moddata/forum/1/1739/_2.JPG
http://www.bangkaew.net/webboard/view.php?No=91 and
http://www.bangkaew.com/elearning/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=287

Hope you can have a visit next time, it is at Nakornprathom  about 2 hr drive from Bangkok

Re: ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย Amanda Gibney - Thursday, 13 January 2005, 08:19AM
  I hope to be able to visit your shelter the next time I visit Thailand.

I don't think you have to have one or the other temperament in the TBD. From my limited dealing with them up to this point I believe they have the potential to be very similar to a Belgian Sheepdog or Tuvern with a correct temperament. I have travelled with and shown both breeds and the ones that have correct temperaments are wonderful dogs. I always felt safe in hotels having them loose in the room, I was never worried walking them late at night, but I was also never worried about them attacking anyone without provication.

Dreamer (Belgian Sheepdog), would sleep on my bed at the hotels and if anyone was outside the room he'd let me know. He'd stand at attention and woof if someone he didn't know came in the room, but I would tell him they were 'ok' and he'd go to them for pets and a belly rub. I had a man come up to me in a parking lot late at night begging for money, Dreamer didn't like the look of him and neither did I. He kept himself between us, his ruff hackled up and gave a low growl until the guy gave up and left. Dreamer was always perfectly behaved around anyone I was comfortable with, never shyed from a judge, never guarded his crate, let children hang off of him. But I always knew that if I needed his protection he would give it. On top of having a wonder correct temperament he also finished his AKC championship by 12 months old and was a multiple group placer.

I have shown Akitas with the same type of temperament, sweet as can be unless I am uncomforatable in a situation.

It takes a lot of work on the part of breeders and owners to produce dogs like that. Parents must be carefully chosen. Puppies must be porperly raised and socialized, left with littermates and dam long enough and be around other puppy tolerent adults to learn bite inhibition. Breeders have to get them socialized to new and different enviroments and situations. Owners have to keep up the socialization and be consistant in their correction and praise.

Amanda
ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย ^.".^ Jill - Thursday, 13 January 2005, 09:01AM
 

Within all breeds there are always different opinions as to what direction it's development will take.  It is when there are disagreements among breeders over breed type, temperment or conformation that we see breeds get split into varieties by waring factions, often dawning new names as a result.  This has happened in the German Shepherd.  Those who favored the white color have now developed it and named it the White Shepherd. It shown as a completely different breed than that from which it was developed. The same scenario was played out over the Jack Russell Terrier. The breed splintered and the Parson Russell Terrier, with a very different conformation, is now seen. 

Compared to some others, the TBD is a young breed, only 100+ years old. I hope there is a happy medium to be found. To develop dogs that are reliably steady in the company of non-threatening persons, yet will alert their owners to the trespasses of strangers near their homesteads. The trainability needed for guard work & the military need not be lost. As seen in such breeds as the Belgian Malinois & Tervuren they confident, exhibiting neither shyness nor aggressiveness in new situations. They may be reserved, observant and watchful with strangers but affectionate with friends & family. They naturally protect the owner and property without being overly aggressive. They do not show fear or shyness. They don't show viciousness by unwarranted or unprovoked attack. I do not fear walking past them at shows or speaking with their masters, as they are approachable. Yet, I always felt very safe when traveling to shows with my friend's Belgian for he would warn any stranger away from the hotel room door. He showed confidence to equal the situation.  With those he knows well, he is affectionate and friendly.

Ultimately, this type of temperament is versitile enough to protect when the situation presents itself, yet allows for dogs who are sheltered to be adopted by new families.เห็นด้วย

ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย ^.".^ Jill - Thursday, 13 January 2005, 10:02AM
  Can you show me pictures of  tiger-face , lion-face ,and fox-face TBD.  Are they shown as varieties,  such as the  dachsund with smooth, wire & long coats? Or is it just  description of type?  We have several types in the Siberian.  None is considered more correct than the other. It is a reflection of the different lines & a matter of personal taste.
ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย Pingpong \(-_-)/ - Thursday, 13 January 2005, 10:38AM
 

It is just  description of resemblance.
Not of type, I think.  It is unofficially defined by some TBD experts.

Maybe I can find some pictures for you if I visit Pitsanulok Annual Festival on 29 this month.

Until now , I have just the feeling that these 3 TBD resemble something they defined respectively.
http://www.bangkaew.net/pingpong.jpghttp://www.bangkaew.org/images/tora2.gif
http://www.bangkaew.net/index.htm

http://www.bangkaew.com/webboard/data/imagefiles/R159-3.jpg
http://www.bangkaew.com/webboard/data/imagefiles/R159-6.jpg

http://www.bangkaew.com/webboard/view.php?No=159

ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย I love Bangkaew - Thursday, 13 January 2005, 07:14PM
 
I took these on my cell phone camera.
First is Amanda & Mo
second is Numloph
ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย I love Bangkaew - Thursday, 13 January 2005, 07:14PM
 
second is Numloph
ตอบ: The Shelter Project for Unwanted and Abandoned Thai Bangkaew Dog
โดย ไตรสิทธิ์ . - Saturday, 15 January 2005, 07:37AM
 
from Ms.Jill

This is my new tbd site....http://www.barkarian.com/thaibangkaew/ 
 
I have linked the shelter project off this page http://www.barkarian.com/thaibangkaew/page6.html